Episode Transcript
Welcome to faith and science. I'm Dr. John Ashton.
At times on this programme, I've spoken about the work of James Tour, a synthetic chemist, one stage ranked as one of the top ten chemists in the world and certainly one of the leading synthetic chemists. And he puts up very powerful arguments as to why a living cell cannot form from nonliving chemicals. The chemistry is just so involved.
The reactions that are required to produce the compounds are so involved, and really just some of the reactions wouldn't take place just in a natural environment situation. And he spoke and gave a presentation at Andrews University in the United States back in September 2020. And you can look at that presentation simply by Googling James Tour.
Dr. James Tour. Chemists don't have a clue, and I think it's about origins, and that will bring it up.
But I noticed that when you do that search now, a number of chemists have spoken out against Dr. Tour, desperately trying to defend the atheistic position that somehow life could form by chance. And it's interesting, when I look at some of these arguments that they put up to try and refute Dr. Tour One of those is that, for know how, can Dr. Tour consider himself an expert in the origin of life, because he's just a chemist.
And really, the origin of life involves astronomers and geologists and cosmologists, as well as biologists and geneticists, all this sort of thing. But this is, again, setting up a straw man. It's setting up and debunking an argument that really doesn't apply, because even though some of these people argue that, well, we find sort of small organic type compounds and things like cyanide, radicals and this sort of thing in stars and carbon formed in stars.
So we've detected the spectrum for this. And therefore, if these compounds form in stars and they can form on earth and a cluster of them can form, what they don't understand is geology, physics, astronomy, all this sort of thing. Sure, that talks about the environment, but the actual mechanism to create life from nonliving molecules, to create some living organism, involves chemistry, and it's biochemistry that underpins all the reactions that sustain life.
And I think this is missed. So when they sort of attempt to, you know, what does Dr. Tour know about this? That's right in his area.
His area is synthetic chemistry. His area is the area where you have to make chemical reactions. You know, I trained as a chemist, an industrial chemist, and to get reactions, to go, to get synthesis and create a new compound can involve specialist glassware and got to clean your glassware, make it clean.
And of course, often with many of these reactions too, the yield is low. In other words, the amount of compound that you form that you particularly want compared to other things can be quite small. And this is the whole idea in chemical synthesis is to look and try and come up with reaction pathways that do generate sufficient compounds.
I think it's beyond the comprehension of most people to understand how complex the chemistry is in living organisms. But furthermore, the chemistry that's involved in living organisms involves a lot of participating chemical compounds and all these compounds themselves have to be synthesised. It's interesting that Tour gave this particular presentation at Andrews University.
And one of the professors of chemistry there is Dr. Ryan Hayes and he has an article in this book that I've been going through, Design and Catastrophe 51: Scientists Explore Evidence in Nature, which was published by Andrews University Press, edited by James Gibson and Humbodo Rassi and Ronnie Nalin. And so it has a number of excellent chapters.
And Dr. Hayes, the professor of chemistry at Andrews, has a chapter there. And it's very relevant to this whole issue that an atheistic explanation for the origin of life and for evolution just doesn't cut it.
It doesn't fit the evidence. It's absolutely impossible. Life and the complexity of life and living organisms had to have a designer, had to have a supernatural creator that put these systems together and set them up.
And Dr. Hayes writes about this in a chapter which is titled All Natural Chemistry: Not What You Think! And he starts off by saying, what is a natural chemical reaction? See, when the atheists are putting up their arguments, they're saying, well hang on, these reactions can occur and so forth, but when we drill down the chemistry we find that, well hang on, the picture's not quite like that.
And this, I think is an excellent article explained by Dr. Hayes. He goes on to say, are all chemical reactions found on planet Earth considered to be natural? If not, how does one decide what is naturally occurring or not? The way we speak about nature and natural leads scientists and non scientists to a confusing and inconsistent way of applying these words.
So I'm reading from Dr. Hayes' article here. Now, understanding the limits of spontaneous chemical reactions informs on what can happen naturally or without additional energy or engineering contrivances.
And he goes on to say, I would like to propose that cyanobacteria, plants and other photosynthetic organisms can be considered unnatural chemical factories since they combine a series of unfavourable reactions to make unnatural end products. Now I'm going to read that again, because this is a very important point that comes out, and the same point is made by James Tour. And it's something that I think the proponents of atheism and those people that are wanting to keep God out of the science classroom, where all the evidence from so many directions is pointing to a supernatural creator that created the laws of physics, that created matter, that created atoms, and the structure of atoms to behave in the way they did, and also created life and living organisms.
And so I'll just read what he says again. I would like to propose that cyanobacteria, plants and other photosynthetic organisms, so these are organisms that can utilise sunlight to generate or to make chemical reactions go that otherwise wouldn't go. And any other photosynthetic organisms can be considered unnatural chemical factories, since they combine a series of unfavourable reactions to make unnatural end products.
And so notice that term, too, unfavourable reactions. In other words, these are reactions that wouldn't spontaneously go in nature. They only go under these contrived conditions in a particular organism.
So he goes on to say there are many important chemical reactions happening around us all the time, some of which are spontaneous. How does one discover whether a reaction is spontaneous or not? Chemists define spontaneous reactions as those whose Gibbs free energy is favourable based on the combination of enthalpy, that is, the emission of or absorbing of heat and entropy, the spreading out or coming together of atoms. And so, along with temperature.
Now, all chemical reactions fall into four categories that are combinations of the two enthalpy options. That is, whether they're emitting or absorbing heat, and the two entropy options, in other words, whether atoms are being dispersed or coming together. And there are three types of spontaneous.
The fourth are non spontaneous. And this category describes much of the reactions found in living organisms. And no amount of time, temperature and energy can make these happen.
This is a very important statement that he's making there, and I think something that perhaps many people, and even particularly people in biology and this sort of thing, that are claiming, well, hang on, these reactions can occur and we can produce life. They've got to understand there are types of reactions that just won't occur in nature. So, while he points out that all chemical reactions fall into the four categories that are combinations of the two enthalpy options or the two entropy options, there are three combinations that are spontaneous, but the fourth is non spontaneous.
And it describes much of the reactions found in living systems. And no amount of time, temperature and energy can make these happen. So that's Dr. Hayes pointing that out. And again, this is the whole point, particularly in the area of synthetic chemistry, that so many of the reactions and compounds that are formed that are required in living systems can't form by spontaneous reactions. And it takes a coordinated effort involving the proper ingredients, the proper concentrations, the proper viscosity, the proper mixing temperature, the proper types of energy, the proper ph purity, and also the molecular geometry has to be just right to make these reactions happen.
And this is, I think, again, something that many biologists don't understand. I talked just recently, for example, in the synthesis of cholesterol, that this molecule has 256 possible structural arrangements that could form by the chemical reactions. 256.
But only one of those 256 structures is going to play the have the right structure to produce the biochemistry required that cholesterol participates in the biochemistry of mammals. And so again, this specificity as well is key evidence pointing to a unique design and creator. Now, intelligence is able to devise a way to make these reactions happen.
And photosynthesis falls under this non spontaneous category, along with a number of critical life supporting reactions, such as the formation of DNA, RNA and proteins. So again, all these reactions where DNA is synthesised, RNA and proteins are types of reactions that won't occur spontaneously. They will only occur in preexisting biological systems or under artificially manmade specific constructs.
So in order for photosynthesis to work, at least eight subsystems need to be in place at the right time and place. Now, it's interesting that the Bible talks about God created life on created plants on the third day, and these were the first living systems. God had created atmosphere just beforehand, had the carbon dioxide and oxygen and so forth there.
And of course, the moisture was there. God created land and he created the plants, and of course, the land provide the minerals and so forth there. And this is quite fascinating because once the plants there, the plants, plants essentially, and bacteria provide food for all the living systems.
And plants provide that food, sugars and carbohydrates, by taking in the carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and splitting water, using light, combining that hydrogen with the carbon dioxide to perform carbohydrates. It's an amazing chemical reaction to think that it arrives by chance and hence was able to provide the food for all the other things, all the other creatures. On my mind, it's just denying the overwhelming evidence for a creator and a designer, because, again, we know that so many plants again require animals and so forth for their pollination and all this sort of thing.
And it's interesting, of course, that the next thing that God created after he created the light for the plants on the fourth day, so that they can photosynthesize from the sun, sunlight and so forth. Then we have the insects and the flying things created that can pollinate them. The Bible's picture just fits the science so well.
It fits at a very rapid creation as well. And it's interesting, an article appeared in new scientists just in 2020 as well. I think it was in August 2020, round about the 5 August 2020, where they were talking about a radical new theory for the origin of life that they were trying to come up with.
And it was essentially a chemical big bang. Why? Because all the evidence now is pointing to a very rapid creation of life, of living organisms, and that it had to be. But of course, as we pointed out, these reactions that are required can't occur naturally.
It required a creator. So even now, as scientists look at it, they realise that life must have been a creative very rapidly, not over a long period of time, of short intermediates producing all the intermediates. Why? Because they're unstable.
They're not going to hang around in the environment. So all the evidence just consistently points to a supernatural creator. Now, as we're talking about here, photosynthesis, as Dr. Hayes points out, involves eight subsystems that need to be in place at just the right time. And he points out that this is another example of molecular irreducible complexity, as pointed out by Dr. Behe in others, particularly in his book Darwin Black Box by Dr. Behe. And it involves the ingredients carbon dioxide and water, that need to be placed in the correct chemical location and amounts, and just the right concentrations, along with just the right temperature in order to manufacture glucose and oxygen. Now, photosystem one subsystem needs 417 chemical components that are specifically arranged and aligned to capture light and begin the process of creating chemical energy.
These 417 molecules consist of betacarotenes and porphyrin molecules that have to be precisely positioned in order to collect sunlight of the proper energy and funnel it to the correct location. If the molecular spacing and relative orientations are off by the distance of just a few atoms, the process will not work. Porphyrins, such as chlorophyll, are some of the best molecules known to humans for absorbing light.
And these just so happen to be what is found inside this, what we call photosystem one. So here, this first part of the system, this is the only part of it. Photosystem 1417 chemical compounds.
Now, evolutionists have to believe in the origin of plants, for example, that all these chemicals came together and as Dr. Hayes points out, in just the right structure, in just the right position at just the right time to synthesise the glucose. And we can see that such a structure in plants, it's not going to happen by chance.
And then, of course, you have to have the DNA code spontaneously form at the same time that encodes all this new information, how to make all these compounds, 417 of them, so that as the plant reproduces well, so a new plant can be reproduced that has all this system in it from the DNA code. I mean, common sense tells us it's totally illogical to believe that such a system can arise by chance. But as Dr.Hayes points out, the reactions required to produce these chemicals don't occur in nature. They're not natural. Now, photosystem two is not that much simpler.
Photosystem two, which is in Santa bacteria and green plants, is composed of around 20 subunits, as well as other accessory light harvesting proteins. Each photosystem two consists of at least 99 cofactors comprised of 35 chlorophyll and twelve beta carotenes. Two pheophytins, two plasticquinones, two hemes and one bicarbonate.
20 lipid molecules. Manganese calcium oxide cluster. So notice that's magnese, not magnesium.
Manganese calcium oxide cluster with the formula Mn. Four Cao five and one non heme iron. Two iron and two calcium ions per monomer.
And most of these molecules need to be created and precisely positioned by the organism. Now, again, for such a complex system to arise by chance, that enables the plant to take sunlight, split water into oxygen, which is then released and hydrogen, and combine the hydrogen with carbon dioxide. But there's more.
Atp synthase, cytochrome b six f, plasticquinone, plasticcyanon, ferrodoxin, ferrodoxin, nadp plus reductase are all needed finely tuned and fully specialised chemicals. As with photosystems one and two, all of these systems need to be embedded in a membrane in the correct orientation and spacing to work together. The glycolic cycle was populated during this process to continually produce various chemicals such as glucose, which the photosynthetic organism uses as a structural chemical and energy storage.
So of course, that's how the carbohydrate structures of cellulose and all these sort of things are produced. So the plant needs this system to grow. The plant needs this to grow.
I mean, you can't have a plant without this system there because the plant needs this system to produce the structures that grow the plant. That's why we know you get a lot of water and you get heat and sunlight and wow, don't the weeds grow on the plants? I've just been away just for a few days and we've had a lot of rain and sunshine. I come back today, I'm going to have to mow the lawn again.
And the other day I weeded the garden. It seemed not that long ago that I had weeded the garden. Plants aren't going to function unnecessary.
These systems with all these complex chemicals and specific chemicals are there. It's interesting, he points out. Dr. Hayes points out, according to the darwinian narrative, bacteria figured out how to get energy from sulphur, methane and some other chemicals next to thermal vents in the ocean. And then, through natural selection, adaption, they discovered how to manufacture glucose and dioxygen from carbon dioxide and water using photosynthesis. This process seems so naturally straightforward, how could it be wrong? But Ian points out, unfortunately, the actual chemistry of photosynthesis within living systems does not occur spontaneously.
A brief but careful look at photosynthesis quickly shows that it's not possible to design and successfully implement this irreducible, complex set of chemical parts and chemical reactions without the involvement of intelligence. And so what he's saying is here, the darwinian model paints this very simple picture. And you read about in textbooks, I've read in textbooks myself, how they just say, well, this is how it all happens, or just straightforward, the plants learned how to do this.
But hang on, it's so complex, a plant can't learn like that. It takes scientists years to figure out how the whole thing works. They still don't know the exact structure in photosystems of how the water is actually bonded to get zapped and so forth, with the photons of energy that the plant absorbs from the sunlight.
And so to say that this complex system arose by chance, in my view, is ridiculous. Most of the chemical parts of the photosynthetic reaction centre require intelligent design to make. These chemicals need to be manufactured within the plant by proteins and enzymes, then taken to the exact location where they are used.
Properly positioned and correctly connected, all these things aren't going to happen by chance. Through some evolutionary process, these chemical parts will fail or degrade if not properly aligned. Even if all the correct chemicals are present and light energy is available, these parts do not just snap into place.
Each part is carefully constructed, checked for quality transport to the correct location, inserted properly and integrated by chaperone proteins. How cool is that? This chemistry, found in nature, continues to provide examples of some of the most unlikely and unfavourable chemical reactions, but their production has been automated. It's amazing the complexity and details of these amazing systems in plants.
It goes on to currently, the status quo in science is that any chemical system is possible given enough time and energy. However, the natural laws of chemistry and physics can only do so much on their own. Evidence built on decades of research shows how these elaborate nanoscale systems found in photosystems are far beyond the chemical reach of spontaneity.
We are living in a time that allows a very detailed view of the incredible intelligence that designed and implemented the unnatural chemical manufacturing systems known as photosynthesis. That's how Dr. Hayes concludes his chapter.
The evidence is there. It points clearly to God, the creator. And we know that's the God that the Jews and the Christians worship, the creator, the creator of life.
And we know that that creator of life manifested himself as Jesus Christ, performed miracles here on earth that were witnessed by people, and those people witnessed it, wrote the accounts down. And that has become the Bible that we have today. And it makes sense, it is consistent.
We have this powerful evidence. But what's more, we have hope, because the God who created us, and although the system is running down due to evil, has promised that as we choose him, as we choose Jesus as our saviour and choose to do what is right, that we will be saved one day, we will be recreated with perfect bodies when Jesus returns again and those dead in Christ will be made alive at that time. It's a fantastic message of hope that we have.
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I'm Dr. John Ashton. Have a great day.
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